T Campbell's Blog
Writer of Penny and Aggie, Fans (also called Faans), Rip & Teri, Search Engine Funnies and A History of Webcomics. Experienced webcomics editor, currently seeking full-time work and working on strange and interesting new things...Wednesday, April 27, 2005
You Know How Dumb Greg And I Were? First Draft, We Thought Rikk's Career Choice Would Be The Most Controversial Thing About The Ending.
No way I can do justice to all the back-and-forth going on about Fans right now. So, a few things:
1) Lots of people have written something like, "I'm not sure about this twist, but that doesn't mean you unilaterally suck." I appreciate the kind gesture. But...
2) Criticizing Fans does not make you a traitor and in league with the terrorists. You guys who are less than satisfied SHOULD be speaking your mind about the work, not verbally tiptoeing around it like it's an ugly baby picture. That is the best way for not only me but for webcomics in general to improve. I'm a big boy. I can take it. :-) The previous post was meant as the "window into my world" promised by the blog subhead, not a sympathy plea.
3) The criticism that's carrying the most weight with me right now is "This is too sudden/casual from Rikk." I do worry about that. I know that he did wrestle with this choice (and so did Ally, but less so). Previous drafts showed more of that, but at the cost of the drama or the "real-time characterization." I have at least one Fans-related story on tap, and there's no law that says there'll never be another, so we might get to that someday.
4) On endings. A surprising (to me at least) number of people don't like the fact that everyone ends up more or less happy. So far as I know, nobody was clamoring for "Everybody Dies Horribly Friday," but they argue perhaps one character should have had a bad life to counterbalance the others'.
One reader reminded me that not all endings have to be happy, and that's certainly true. "The Most Dangerous Game" ended with something like a double suicide, "Times of War" ended with PTSD and "The Cruelest Month's" main plot ended in total failure. But Fans isn't a tragedy. It all but demands a happy series ending-- otherwise all its humanistic messages lose their force upon rereading. The characters, no real experts at being contented, actively resisted every happy variation on the end but this one.
(And they ganged up on me, too. Rikk: "If they're not happy, I won't be happy." Ally: "If they're not happy, I won't be happy." Rumy: "If they're not happy, I won't be happy." Ally: "I'll leave, then you two can be happy." Rumy: "That won't make me happy!" Me: "What would make you happy?" Rumy: "For them to be together." Rikk: "What are you talking about? We're together NOW and you're not happy." Rumy: "For them to be... but for me to have... I... I want both." Me: "Fine! Done! Happy?")
And yeah, the ending they settled on is the one which will probably take the most work from them in the years to come. They're a little masochistic like that.
Whew! That's all I got. I'm goin' back to bed...
1) Lots of people have written something like, "I'm not sure about this twist, but that doesn't mean you unilaterally suck." I appreciate the kind gesture. But...
2) Criticizing Fans does not make you a traitor and in league with the terrorists. You guys who are less than satisfied SHOULD be speaking your mind about the work, not verbally tiptoeing around it like it's an ugly baby picture. That is the best way for not only me but for webcomics in general to improve. I'm a big boy. I can take it. :-) The previous post was meant as the "window into my world" promised by the blog subhead, not a sympathy plea.
3) The criticism that's carrying the most weight with me right now is "This is too sudden/casual from Rikk." I do worry about that. I know that he did wrestle with this choice (and so did Ally, but less so). Previous drafts showed more of that, but at the cost of the drama or the "real-time characterization." I have at least one Fans-related story on tap, and there's no law that says there'll never be another, so we might get to that someday.
4) On endings. A surprising (to me at least) number of people don't like the fact that everyone ends up more or less happy. So far as I know, nobody was clamoring for "Everybody Dies Horribly Friday," but they argue perhaps one character should have had a bad life to counterbalance the others'.
One reader reminded me that not all endings have to be happy, and that's certainly true. "The Most Dangerous Game" ended with something like a double suicide, "Times of War" ended with PTSD and "The Cruelest Month's" main plot ended in total failure. But Fans isn't a tragedy. It all but demands a happy series ending-- otherwise all its humanistic messages lose their force upon rereading. The characters, no real experts at being contented, actively resisted every happy variation on the end but this one.
(And they ganged up on me, too. Rikk: "If they're not happy, I won't be happy." Ally: "If they're not happy, I won't be happy." Rumy: "If they're not happy, I won't be happy." Ally: "I'll leave, then you two can be happy." Rumy: "That won't make me happy!" Me: "What would make you happy?" Rumy: "For them to be together." Rikk: "What are you talking about? We're together NOW and you're not happy." Rumy: "For them to be... but for me to have... I... I want both." Me: "Fine! Done! Happy?")
And yeah, the ending they settled on is the one which will probably take the most work from them in the years to come. They're a little masochistic like that.
Whew! That's all I got. I'm goin' back to bed...
Comments:
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Well, I thought it was a lovely ending. And I don't tend to post comments much, but I've adored this comic since I first stumbled across it, during the wee early days before Times of War, so.. as important as Fans is to me, I'm really glad it gave me an ending I can cherish. Thanks, guys.
I say this as a person who is a first time poster here (though I have gotten an email answered from you, more that I can say for many webcartoonists) Overall I loved the ending. I actually like the fact too that Will honestly asseses himself and wonders about the dangers and potential for abuse he might have.
I admit that the Rumy-Alisin-Rikk thing is a tadd odd in my mind, but again, it works quite well. Also, I want to say thank you, thank you for providing a comic that I can enjoy without first needing a frontal lobotomy.
I admit that the Rumy-Alisin-Rikk thing is a tadd odd in my mind, but again, it works quite well. Also, I want to say thank you, thank you for providing a comic that I can enjoy without first needing a frontal lobotomy.
T,
You didn't think polygamy would be controversial?
I have to say I am very disappointed in the Rik/Ally/Rumy ending. It reads too much like a male fantasy. I don't think it fits any of the characters. Just because Ally had a wild past doesn't mean she will naturally favor polygamy. This ending reads like "Chasing Amy" done wrong.
For me it ends the series on a sour note. If I were to re-read the series I would simply stop at the end of "Others" and pretend "The Ways the World End" didn't exist. That would be more satisfying.
You didn't think polygamy would be controversial?
I have to say I am very disappointed in the Rik/Ally/Rumy ending. It reads too much like a male fantasy. I don't think it fits any of the characters. Just because Ally had a wild past doesn't mean she will naturally favor polygamy. This ending reads like "Chasing Amy" done wrong.
For me it ends the series on a sour note. If I were to re-read the series I would simply stop at the end of "Others" and pretend "The Ways the World End" didn't exist. That would be more satisfying.
We didn't know the revision process was going to take us in this exact direction. The original version was more socially conventional, but not as emotionally satisfying and way WAY more contrived. Rikk's joining AEGIS, however, was in there from the first draft to the last.
Aha! I had a feeling all our apologies and disclaimers in those threads were reaching critical mass.Well, you're in luck. 'Cause attacking things I like? It's my stock in trade, baby.
You suck. Yeah, you. You suck like a yellow-bellied sapsucker. You suck like a Hoover -- the appliance or the guy. You suck so hard NASA wants to use you as an artificial vaccuum. You suck like the moms of everyone David Willis talks to. You suck more than Robert Beltran's acting, J. Michael Straczynski's ego control, Joss Whedon's feminist credentials post-Angel S5, Peter David's sense of proportion about politics, Ashton Kutcher's non-The Butterfly Effect movie roles, and Seth McFarlane's ability to create two dissimilar TV shows all rolled into one. Squared.
And you know what else? You SUCK.
Okay, I'm done.
- Z
[PS: On an unrelated note, I was delighted to see Rikk end up working for the FIB full-time -- hope it turns out better than certain ensouled vampires working for certain soulless law firms. I wish I felt better about the character. I consider Rikk one of the best characters in all of webcomics, and one week shouldn't change that; I just hope I'll be able to remember him in the future without this final week always coming to mind.]
You suck. Yeah, you. You suck like a yellow-bellied sapsucker. You suck like a Hoover -- the appliance or the guy. You suck so hard NASA wants to use you as an artificial vaccuum. You suck like the moms of everyone David Willis talks to. You suck more than Robert Beltran's acting, J. Michael Straczynski's ego control, Joss Whedon's feminist credentials post-Angel S5, Peter David's sense of proportion about politics, Ashton Kutcher's non-The Butterfly Effect movie roles, and Seth McFarlane's ability to create two dissimilar TV shows all rolled into one. Squared.
And you know what else? You SUCK.
Okay, I'm done.
- Z
[PS: On an unrelated note, I was delighted to see Rikk end up working for the FIB full-time -- hope it turns out better than certain ensouled vampires working for certain soulless law firms. I wish I felt better about the character. I consider Rikk one of the best characters in all of webcomics, and one week shouldn't change that; I just hope I'll be able to remember him in the future without this final week always coming to mind.]
T, I think Rikk joining the government does feel tame in light of the other big bombshell in the series. My big question is; what is the deal with Rikk's beard? Where is that coming from?
I for one wasn't shocked or disappointed by the polyamory tie-up for Rikk, Ally and Rumy. I was pleasantly surprised, but I didn't think it was a cop-out.
What I do think is a cop-out is to end the series having raised that issue. Of the twists and complications and issues raised by Fans!, this I think is perhaps the most controversial. Comments on this week's strips make it clear that the readership of Fans! is less exposed to polyamory than to, say, BDSM.
I'll admit that the rest of "The Ways the World Ends" had been a little off-putting. The whole "reality twisted into putty" thing is kind of wonky. But, I for one would like to see their relationship explored - both for my own enjoyment, and for the edification of others.
What I do think is a cop-out is to end the series having raised that issue. Of the twists and complications and issues raised by Fans!, this I think is perhaps the most controversial. Comments on this week's strips make it clear that the readership of Fans! is less exposed to polyamory than to, say, BDSM.
I'll admit that the rest of "The Ways the World Ends" had been a little off-putting. The whole "reality twisted into putty" thing is kind of wonky. But, I for one would like to see their relationship explored - both for my own enjoyment, and for the edification of others.
And in your listing of unhappy major storylines, let's not forget the one that immediately preceded this, "Bound," which has to have been the single most depressing, disturbing chapter in all of Fans!.
I mean, cripes! It was like all of the misery of the "Martians return and kill half the cast" of Walky! or the "April turns evil and screws everyone up, after which the guys get imprisoned and tortured and Margaret runs away and kills Roger's mother" parts of CRFH dumped on one poor old relationship that had already just survived collateral damage from Anti-Cupid and Alisin's death's door "for his own good" betrayal of Rikk.
Folks talk at length about poor Rumy's romantic troubles, but geez! Look at what Rikk and Alisin have been through themselves! If any three characters in web comics have earned a happy ending, it's those three.
I mean, cripes! It was like all of the misery of the "Martians return and kill half the cast" of Walky! or the "April turns evil and screws everyone up, after which the guys get imprisoned and tortured and Margaret runs away and kills Roger's mother" parts of CRFH dumped on one poor old relationship that had already just survived collateral damage from Anti-Cupid and Alisin's death's door "for his own good" betrayal of Rikk.
Folks talk at length about poor Rumy's romantic troubles, but geez! Look at what Rikk and Alisin have been through themselves! If any three characters in web comics have earned a happy ending, it's those three.
By the way, T, I want you to know that if my fingers are too worn out to finish either of the two long SFBlog posts that I've got in the pipeline, I'm blaming you for writing such a thought- (and word-)provoking ending to Fans!
Curse you, Destroyer of Free Time Campbell! You will rue the day that you oh wait I just thought of something I need to go post about Alisin over on the message board
Curse you, Destroyer of Free Time Campbell! You will rue the day that you oh wait I just thought of something I need to go post about Alisin over on the message board
I can't say I disagree with the ending, I'm just too damn sad to see this comic go. I mean, my emotional state was bad enough when I found out who Rikk had really sold his soul to, but this....oh, geeze...get the tissues...
T, I have to say that for a very long time, I've thought that Rikk, Ally, and Rumy might be better off in a poly relationship -- it seemed like the natural solution to me, and I'm happy to see it. It did seem a bit rushed, but that's the nature of endings.
As for the controversy over this, I guess quite a few people don't realize that poly relationships aren't as uncommon as you might expect. Especially in fandom and other overlapping areas like the SCA. It's not for everyone, but the poly relationships I know tend to be pretty good ones.
I'll be sorry to see Fans go. It's been one of my favorites.
As for the controversy over this, I guess quite a few people don't realize that poly relationships aren't as uncommon as you might expect. Especially in fandom and other overlapping areas like the SCA. It's not for everyone, but the poly relationships I know tend to be pretty good ones.
I'll be sorry to see Fans go. It's been one of my favorites.
I've been reading Fans! since 2002. I have gone back and re-read the entire series at least twice since then. I must say this:
'BOUT DAMN TIME!!!
I always figured Alisin, Rikk & Rumy should have hooked up a long time ago!
I figured the only only thing really holding them back was Rumy's fear of releationships and Rikk's rather Old Fashioned morality.
I am glad they worked past all that. I don't find their relationship unusual, It's happened a lot more often than most people think and more than some will ever admit.
A lot of readers are treating this like it's just a 'Guy's macho fantasy/wish fullfilment' thing. I don't see it as such.
I know that a relationship between 2 people takes a Huge amount of work. In a Trio, the work load is doubled for everyone involved.
I also want to say Thank You!
Thank you for one of the finest pieces of Literature I've had the good fortune to stumble upon. T, You Rock! and I thank all of the other artists who brought these charachters to life.
I am sad to see it end, but at least it ends well.
Now, when are you going to have the entire series bound into book form so I can put in my order at Amazon?
'BOUT DAMN TIME!!!
I always figured Alisin, Rikk & Rumy should have hooked up a long time ago!
I figured the only only thing really holding them back was Rumy's fear of releationships and Rikk's rather Old Fashioned morality.
I am glad they worked past all that. I don't find their relationship unusual, It's happened a lot more often than most people think and more than some will ever admit.
A lot of readers are treating this like it's just a 'Guy's macho fantasy/wish fullfilment' thing. I don't see it as such.
I know that a relationship between 2 people takes a Huge amount of work. In a Trio, the work load is doubled for everyone involved.
I also want to say Thank You!
Thank you for one of the finest pieces of Literature I've had the good fortune to stumble upon. T, You Rock! and I thank all of the other artists who brought these charachters to life.
I am sad to see it end, but at least it ends well.
Now, when are you going to have the entire series bound into book form so I can put in my order at Amazon?
I should also like to add, in the spirit of fandom...
"...There's somebody out there for everybody. In some cases, there's two somebodies for everybody. I like to call that the jackpot."
Dodgeball
"...There's somebody out there for everybody. In some cases, there's two somebodies for everybody. I like to call that the jackpot."
Dodgeball
I'm just surprised it took them this long to return to this idea (first mentioned by a drunk Alisin to a drunk Rumy long, long ago), having known a number of friends in similar situations who came to the conclusion that a triad was the way to go.
Most of them are even still together, bless their souls.
Most of them are even still together, bless their souls.
You were expecting Rikk's career choice to be controversial? Why? You were only building up to it for what, two years? Three?
The Rikk/Rumy/Alisin relationship, on the other hand, was a complete surprise. That's probably what's got so many people up in arms. The reactions you're seeing mostly stem from that.
The Rikk/Rumy/Alisin relationship, on the other hand, was a complete surprise. That's probably what's got so many people up in arms. The reactions you're seeing mostly stem from that.
I liked the ending in general. All the characters were ended will, if a slight bit idealistic. (Nobody expected a B5-ish ending)
Rikk joining the government seems perfectly natural for his character. He always seemed to think it was necessary but carried out in too evil a way, so of course he'd choose to oversee it. (Although I still think there should be some sort of a resolution for the non-violent creatures trapped in the unconscious collective. That fairy in one panel for instance who was used as an example of creatures kept there that didn't necessarily need to be).
The triad ending seems a bit idealistic, as if you liked the characters too much to force any of them to make compromises, but otherwise, it's more interesting than the alternatives.
Rikk joining the government seems perfectly natural for his character. He always seemed to think it was necessary but carried out in too evil a way, so of course he'd choose to oversee it. (Although I still think there should be some sort of a resolution for the non-violent creatures trapped in the unconscious collective. That fairy in one panel for instance who was used as an example of creatures kept there that didn't necessarily need to be).
The triad ending seems a bit idealistic, as if you liked the characters too much to force any of them to make compromises, but otherwise, it's more interesting than the alternatives.
Yeah, me again. It's encouraging that there have already been people here dismissing the "male fantasy" aspect of Rikk's good fortune. I expected that the accusation would be raised, and I see that it was indeed raised in the forums (which I'm not registered on, and I don't comment often enough for that to be worthwhile).
So. To set the record straight, here, Rikk is *not* the only one getting a sweet deal, even if you look at it from a strictly sexual perspective (which would be a profound disservice to everyone involved). It was established long, long ago that Ally is bisexual. This is not a fact to be brushed aside as a mere technicality to make the arrangement feasible. This is part of who she is.
I'm bisexual. I know what it's like, what it entails. As a hopeless romantic, I'd give my proverbial eyeteeth to be in Ally's shoes, with such a loving, sincere long-term relationship where I'd get a man and a woman all to myself. Ally's getting more out of this than anyone has any right to expect; it is entirely believable to me that she wanted this happy ending.
That said, it's obvious that Rikk and Rumiko are both thrilled, each for their own reasons. I, too, wish the series would go on and explore their emotional dynamic further, but it had to end somewhere, so I'm glad it ended so well.
So, yeah, now where's the Fantastica CD I sent away for, months ago? I want to buy the complete set!
So. To set the record straight, here, Rikk is *not* the only one getting a sweet deal, even if you look at it from a strictly sexual perspective (which would be a profound disservice to everyone involved). It was established long, long ago that Ally is bisexual. This is not a fact to be brushed aside as a mere technicality to make the arrangement feasible. This is part of who she is.
I'm bisexual. I know what it's like, what it entails. As a hopeless romantic, I'd give my proverbial eyeteeth to be in Ally's shoes, with such a loving, sincere long-term relationship where I'd get a man and a woman all to myself. Ally's getting more out of this than anyone has any right to expect; it is entirely believable to me that she wanted this happy ending.
That said, it's obvious that Rikk and Rumiko are both thrilled, each for their own reasons. I, too, wish the series would go on and explore their emotional dynamic further, but it had to end somewhere, so I'm glad it ended so well.
So, yeah, now where's the Fantastica CD I sent away for, months ago? I want to buy the complete set!
There was something that had been bothering me about the "Trinity" resolution, but I couldn't put my finger on it, let alone put it into words.
I finally figured it out, and posted it here, but I'll spare you the bother of trudging through my repetitive prose (though i wouldn't mind if you read the "Farewell to Fans!" comic I did) and summarize: Rikk was always the character I most identified with (even if I actually resemble Tim in more ways than are comfortable), so now that he's done something I could never seriously imagine myself doing, there's a detachment. He's still a dear friend for whom I wish only the best, but he's no longer "me."
My own fault, really, for projecting too much of myself onto someone else's fictional creation.
Now that I've figured out what had been bothering me, and a few days have passed, it no longer bothers me. Actually, the "friend" analogy is particularly appropriate, as the relationship with one's old friends often changes as time passes, even though the friendship remains.
It's time for me to stop living vicariously through Rikk, and find some other fictional character to live vicariously through ^_^
Oh yeah, the other thing that bothered me was how Ally unexpectedly leaped back into Rikk's arms despite having amicably breaking up with him, but, like the proposal itself, it's another occasion where it needed to be a surprise but couldn't have been if T had strongly hinted at it.
E. Bernhard Warg
Posting anonymously because I don't want to start my own blog, seeing as how I can't even update my webcomic regularly...
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I finally figured it out, and posted it here, but I'll spare you the bother of trudging through my repetitive prose (though i wouldn't mind if you read the "Farewell to Fans!" comic I did) and summarize: Rikk was always the character I most identified with (even if I actually resemble Tim in more ways than are comfortable), so now that he's done something I could never seriously imagine myself doing, there's a detachment. He's still a dear friend for whom I wish only the best, but he's no longer "me."
My own fault, really, for projecting too much of myself onto someone else's fictional creation.
Now that I've figured out what had been bothering me, and a few days have passed, it no longer bothers me. Actually, the "friend" analogy is particularly appropriate, as the relationship with one's old friends often changes as time passes, even though the friendship remains.
It's time for me to stop living vicariously through Rikk, and find some other fictional character to live vicariously through ^_^
Oh yeah, the other thing that bothered me was how Ally unexpectedly leaped back into Rikk's arms despite having amicably breaking up with him, but, like the proposal itself, it's another occasion where it needed to be a surprise but couldn't have been if T had strongly hinted at it.
E. Bernhard Warg
Posting anonymously because I don't want to start my own blog, seeing as how I can't even update my webcomic regularly...
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