T Campbell's Blog
Writer of Penny and Aggie, Fans (also called Faans), Rip & Teri, Search Engine Funnies and A History of Webcomics. Experienced webcomics editor, currently seeking full-time work and working on strange and interesting new things...Thursday, March 02, 2006
So Fix It.
I have a great many things to do before tomorrow morning, so I'm going to have to stop talking about this now. Last round.
1. I think that everyone involved is agreed on one point: that the history of webcomics should be done right. I have asked my publisher for a slight extension-- I will be finalizing the final draft at the end of next week. [UPDATE: At least that's the goal-- considering this book's complexity usually makes me blow deadlines, I may run over a bit.]
2. Once again I invite people to review and suggest revisions to the work, and this time I'll go further. If you are an established webcartoonist or blogger, want to suggest constructive changes and can promise me you will not redistribute the work, I'll send you a copy of the draft. If you already have a copy, go to work. Tell me what you think I've missed. And yes, Rodney, that means you, too. Scott, it's not too late. I cannot promise I will change things just because you say so, and we may disagree on how important something is, but it's very important to me to get the facts as right as possible. This offer's good until noon Wednesday EST. REVISED: This is the deadline to request the work-- the deadline to suggest changes is shifting; I'll update you privately. (Meantime, I'm already changing a few things that I know need correcting or updating.)
3. Some of Scott's readers seem a bit confused. I did ask permission to use all the artwork inside the History. The cover art is based on the work we had permission to use. I didn't realize I also had to ask additional permission to repurpose that work for the cover. That was my oversight, not Antarctic's, and one that I quickly corrected as soon as Scott made it clear to me. It was wrong for me to do it, and my intentions don't change the wrongness! But I think it's not quite the same as a remorseless punch to the face.
4. This book was hardly a get-rich-quick scheme. I've been working on this since 2003, first as a series of unpaid Comixpedia articles, then condensed as an unpaid essay in Steven Withrow's Webcomics, and then as a book. Antarctic did send me an advance, which just about covered rent for the three months I spent finishing it up. My percentage of the sales revenues for the book will be fair, but not huge. Until I see the sales figures, I can't say whether I'll have a profit margin. Word for word, nothing I have done has been more difficult than writing the History.
5. Scott says "I didn't feel it was needed to include Rodney" when I think he means "I didn't feel it was needed to include Rodney as a HORSEMAN." Bit of a difference there. Rodney is in the book.
6. If this is your first time here, I have done other stuff. See the homepage. Nothing as successful as PVP, but plenty of work of my own. I sort of wanted to be best known for Search Engine Funnies. We don't always get to plan these things.
1. I think that everyone involved is agreed on one point: that the history of webcomics should be done right. I have asked my publisher for a slight extension-- I will be finalizing the final draft at the end of next week. [UPDATE: At least that's the goal-- considering this book's complexity usually makes me blow deadlines, I may run over a bit.]
2. Once again I invite people to review and suggest revisions to the work, and this time I'll go further. If you are an established webcartoonist or blogger, want to suggest constructive changes and can promise me you will not redistribute the work, I'll send you a copy of the draft. If you already have a copy, go to work. Tell me what you think I've missed. And yes, Rodney, that means you, too. Scott, it's not too late. I cannot promise I will change things just because you say so, and we may disagree on how important something is, but it's very important to me to get the facts as right as possible. This offer's good until noon Wednesday EST. REVISED: This is the deadline to request the work-- the deadline to suggest changes is shifting; I'll update you privately. (Meantime, I'm already changing a few things that I know need correcting or updating.)
3. Some of Scott's readers seem a bit confused. I did ask permission to use all the artwork inside the History. The cover art is based on the work we had permission to use. I didn't realize I also had to ask additional permission to repurpose that work for the cover. That was my oversight, not Antarctic's, and one that I quickly corrected as soon as Scott made it clear to me. It was wrong for me to do it, and my intentions don't change the wrongness! But I think it's not quite the same as a remorseless punch to the face.
4. This book was hardly a get-rich-quick scheme. I've been working on this since 2003, first as a series of unpaid Comixpedia articles, then condensed as an unpaid essay in Steven Withrow's Webcomics, and then as a book. Antarctic did send me an advance, which just about covered rent for the three months I spent finishing it up. My percentage of the sales revenues for the book will be fair, but not huge. Until I see the sales figures, I can't say whether I'll have a profit margin. Word for word, nothing I have done has been more difficult than writing the History.
5. Scott says "I didn't feel it was needed to include Rodney" when I think he means "I didn't feel it was needed to include Rodney as a HORSEMAN." Bit of a difference there. Rodney is in the book.
6. If this is your first time here, I have done other stuff. See the homepage. Nothing as successful as PVP, but plenty of work of my own. I sort of wanted to be best known for Search Engine Funnies. We don't always get to plan these things.
Comments:
<< Home
This book was hardly a get-rich-quick scheme. I've been working on this since 2003...
And now with the deadline approaching you are trying to fix it now?
Is this book about webcomics or is it about fights and chummy backslapping among a narrow set of people who hang out in the same internet subculture?
Why should anyone care about a bunch of fights among comic geeks? Besides those who hang out in the same culture?
From all this yelling and snarling, this sounds like a bunch of people who have their own subculture like goths or emos and they don't care much about the world outside of it.
Guess what...the world doesn't care right back! :)
From what I read, this sounds more and more like a high school clique.
And now with the deadline approaching you are trying to fix it now?
Is this book about webcomics or is it about fights and chummy backslapping among a narrow set of people who hang out in the same internet subculture?
Why should anyone care about a bunch of fights among comic geeks? Besides those who hang out in the same culture?
From all this yelling and snarling, this sounds like a bunch of people who have their own subculture like goths or emos and they don't care much about the world outside of it.
Guess what...the world doesn't care right back! :)
From what I read, this sounds more and more like a high school clique.
Yeah yeah, people get annoyed because so and so isn't included in that thing that will so make or break everything. Whatever.
I however, work in the Intellectual Property rights field of the oh-so exciting legal world. Perhaps you should think about the lawsuit that will be shortly incomming if those that are offended, who have had their Intellectual Property rights infringed, a sub-par lawyer.
It's good that you are getting "paid" for this one, you could very well need it in the upcomming months.
I however, work in the Intellectual Property rights field of the oh-so exciting legal world. Perhaps you should think about the lawsuit that will be shortly incomming if those that are offended, who have had their Intellectual Property rights infringed, a sub-par lawyer.
It's good that you are getting "paid" for this one, you could very well need it in the upcomming months.
Hm, after reading Scott's rant I expected something else. You seem quite reasonable and this thing seems quite out of proportion.
I would offer to help... but to be honest, I was sequestered in one small corner of the webcomic world until last year. So I'm not sure what I could do to help. Or why my opinions would even matter in it. *chuckle*
Rob H., Tangents
Rob H., Tangents
Scott seriously blew this way out of proportion. He has been known to Drama Queen about stuff before, but this is so over the top it seems ridiculous. He is taking personal offense over something that he isn't even involved in, re: the cover art. T, I hope this doesn't discourage you for future projects. I look forward to the book.
I really hate how Kurtz gets mad at the add using the names and likeness' of other web comic artists. Hasn't he ever heard of fair use?
i have a comment.
white text on black backgrounds is so 90's.
Hurts my eyes so bad I cannot even read the junk Kurtz's proposes you write...
Join the revolution, black text, white background.
For Christ sakes your a supposed author, would you print your fraking book this way!!
white text on black backgrounds is so 90's.
Hurts my eyes so bad I cannot even read the junk Kurtz's proposes you write...
Join the revolution, black text, white background.
For Christ sakes your a supposed author, would you print your fraking book this way!!
I think the visual set-up of T's blog is great. Due to quirks in my vision, I find it much easier to read bright text on a black background than the other way around. I've got Windows and Word both set to default to bright red on a black background. My boss at my old job thought I was very strange as a result.
Nicolas Juzda
Nicolas Juzda
On the one hand, Kurtz is a drama queen, and is likely making a fuss just so he can be the focal point. He hates it when he isn't the center of attention, IMO. Him whining like a little child without even reading the book is so classic Kurtz.
On the other hand, thanks to Kurtz pitching a hissy fit, I'm now aware that you're nearly done, at last!
I think you're being extremely accommodating, and while I personally don't think you were out of line on the cover issue, you're the one who has to face yourself each day, and if you felt it required getting permission, yay for you. I find it funny that Kurtz, who thrives on all kinds of publicity, has screwed himself out of massive free publicity by refusing to allow his work on the cover in a fit of pique, while everyone else was just fine with it. At the same time, he's guaranteed a lot of publicity for your work by advertising it on his site. (Apparently he thinks that all his fans are mindless drones who are unable to decide for themselves what to read. Hah!)
Once again, in the interest of avoiding libel suits from Kurtz, all statements about and descriptions of him in this comment are, obviously, just my opinion.
I'm looking forward to the book, T, and I'm sure, based on your previous writing, that it's going to be very interesting reading. Congrats on finishing!
On the other hand, thanks to Kurtz pitching a hissy fit, I'm now aware that you're nearly done, at last!
I think you're being extremely accommodating, and while I personally don't think you were out of line on the cover issue, you're the one who has to face yourself each day, and if you felt it required getting permission, yay for you. I find it funny that Kurtz, who thrives on all kinds of publicity, has screwed himself out of massive free publicity by refusing to allow his work on the cover in a fit of pique, while everyone else was just fine with it. At the same time, he's guaranteed a lot of publicity for your work by advertising it on his site. (Apparently he thinks that all his fans are mindless drones who are unable to decide for themselves what to read. Hah!)
Once again, in the interest of avoiding libel suits from Kurtz, all statements about and descriptions of him in this comment are, obviously, just my opinion.
I'm looking forward to the book, T, and I'm sure, based on your previous writing, that it's going to be very interesting reading. Congrats on finishing!
You know what the big problem is? And how its addressal* would rectify all the problems?
T tried to write a historical book about people that are still ALIVE! How many things have biographers/researches gotten wrong/skewed/altered about Ben Franklin? or Albert Einstein?
Solve all your problems, T. TRAVEL TO THE FUTURE AND BRING THIS BOOK OUT WHEN EVERYBODY YOU TALK ABOUT IS LONG DEAD AND CREMATED.
barring that, I don't think there's anything that can be done to change Caston's or Kurtz's minds if they've already decided that your explanations are going to be inherently false and self-rightgeous.
*yeah addressal is a word, i just made it up. big whoop. wanna fight about it?
T tried to write a historical book about people that are still ALIVE! How many things have biographers/researches gotten wrong/skewed/altered about Ben Franklin? or Albert Einstein?
Solve all your problems, T. TRAVEL TO THE FUTURE AND BRING THIS BOOK OUT WHEN EVERYBODY YOU TALK ABOUT IS LONG DEAD AND CREMATED.
barring that, I don't think there's anything that can be done to change Caston's or Kurtz's minds if they've already decided that your explanations are going to be inherently false and self-rightgeous.
*yeah addressal is a word, i just made it up. big whoop. wanna fight about it?
I'm a big fan of Kurtz work, but as everyone else has stated -- I've also come to expect reactions in the extreme for anything that doesn't suit his fancy. It just seems to be his way -- though I don't doubt that as a whole he is a nice person.
I do think that this reaction has probably generated a fair amount of buzz. I heard of the book but never though much of it until recently. Now I think I'll have to read it. :)
I do think that this reaction has probably generated a fair amount of buzz. I heard of the book but never though much of it until recently. Now I think I'll have to read it. :)
Solve all your problems, T. TRAVEL TO THE FUTURE AND BRING THIS BOOK OUT WHEN EVERYBODY YOU TALK ABOUT IS LONG DEAD AND CREMATED.
"Soup" has won the internet.
"Soup" has won the internet.
I have to agree that it seems like Kurtz is once again blowing things out of proportion so he can get some righteous anger going.
What's even better is how all the people on his forum react to anyone who dares to question or comment in such a fashion as to cast a shadow on Kurtz or his work.
I think it's ridiculous when people start to think that they're beyond questioning or criticism as Kurtz (or at least his fans) seems to have done.
What's even better is how all the people on his forum react to anyone who dares to question or comment in such a fashion as to cast a shadow on Kurtz or his work.
I think it's ridiculous when people start to think that they're beyond questioning or criticism as Kurtz (or at least his fans) seems to have done.
5. Scott says "I didn't feel it was needed to include Rodney" when I think he means "I didn't feel it was needed to include Rodney as a HORSEMAN." Bit of a difference there. Rodney is in the book.
Actually, Scott says "Rodney Caston, who co-created Megatokyo, is also not listed as a horseman. When I called T on this, he told me that he didn't feel it was needed to include Rodney."
Actually, Scott says "Rodney Caston, who co-created Megatokyo, is also not listed as a horseman. When I called T on this, he told me that he didn't feel it was needed to include Rodney."
My haven't-read-the-book-but-want-to $0.02 on changing things.
1) Interview the other guy in the Megatokyo deal.
2) Lose the seven Horsemen. The anaology worked fine in the Comixpedia article because you only listed 4, but now it doesn't.
Everything else looks like hyperbole from my vantage.
1) Interview the other guy in the Megatokyo deal.
2) Lose the seven Horsemen. The anaology worked fine in the Comixpedia article because you only listed 4, but now it doesn't.
Everything else looks like hyperbole from my vantage.
Kurtz once again being a hilarious drama queen and expecting everyone to believe every word he says.
I read pvp daily and it does indeed make me chuckle, but as a person, he really gets on my nerves from time to time with these outbursts.
He tends to think his opinion is the best thing since sliced bread, which is all well and good when its some eejit on a forum, but you got problems when the guy is running a website with so much influence.
He should really sleep on things before jumping to his pc and spamming his hatred as fast as he possibly can, because right now he sounds like he wants it to be HIS book, not this book he 'read'. He discusses how he wants a book with personalities and opinions different accross the board, but surely this book is the opinion of T. Campbell? Why is his opinion lesser, Scott? Just because he's not a horseman or whatever doesnt make his point of view any less valid!
If that were true, I seem to recall the bile he spewwed about the matrix film which was pretty humourous (I wasn't a fan either), but hey, Scott, if you read this - you didn't make a hollywood movie, so I guess you can't have a published opinion on that either?
Just my 2 cents.
I read pvp daily and it does indeed make me chuckle, but as a person, he really gets on my nerves from time to time with these outbursts.
He tends to think his opinion is the best thing since sliced bread, which is all well and good when its some eejit on a forum, but you got problems when the guy is running a website with so much influence.
He should really sleep on things before jumping to his pc and spamming his hatred as fast as he possibly can, because right now he sounds like he wants it to be HIS book, not this book he 'read'. He discusses how he wants a book with personalities and opinions different accross the board, but surely this book is the opinion of T. Campbell? Why is his opinion lesser, Scott? Just because he's not a horseman or whatever doesnt make his point of view any less valid!
If that were true, I seem to recall the bile he spewwed about the matrix film which was pretty humourous (I wasn't a fan either), but hey, Scott, if you read this - you didn't make a hollywood movie, so I guess you can't have a published opinion on that either?
Just my 2 cents.
This book has caused quite a buzz hasn't it? I'll toss in my two cents while I'm here.
I think one of the things that might be causing such dispute is the fact that everyone has a different idea about which people are the biggest influences, which ones played key roles, and who should be mentioned in the book.
For example: some of my favorite webcomic creators probably won't be mentioned, but it doesn't bother me because a few aren't very well known. Do I think they should be mentioned. Yes, I do, but I'm not going to throw a tantrum about it. There's no real point in doing that.
Besides, for all anyone knows you might create either another version or another volume in the future to record more history. The time of webcomics is still young after all.
From the sounds of it you're trying your hardest to make things right and get the book done correctly. Plus, when one thinks about it, you'll be the person dealing with those who might have a negative reaction to the book. Good luck with that. There are some majorly rabid fans out there.
I still believe it's a little early for any book on the history of webcomics to be published, but I think I'd be willing to read it once it's out.
It sounds interesting.
I think one of the things that might be causing such dispute is the fact that everyone has a different idea about which people are the biggest influences, which ones played key roles, and who should be mentioned in the book.
For example: some of my favorite webcomic creators probably won't be mentioned, but it doesn't bother me because a few aren't very well known. Do I think they should be mentioned. Yes, I do, but I'm not going to throw a tantrum about it. There's no real point in doing that.
Besides, for all anyone knows you might create either another version or another volume in the future to record more history. The time of webcomics is still young after all.
From the sounds of it you're trying your hardest to make things right and get the book done correctly. Plus, when one thinks about it, you'll be the person dealing with those who might have a negative reaction to the book. Good luck with that. There are some majorly rabid fans out there.
I still believe it's a little early for any book on the history of webcomics to be published, but I think I'd be willing to read it once it's out.
It sounds interesting.
Wow... I certainly didn't expect this kind of heat about your book. Then again, when you're even a semi-famous name and have any sort of real voice in the press, if you talk a lot, someone is eventually going to not like what you have to say. If it wasn't Kurtz, I'm sure it would have been someone else.
I enjoy using this cliche, because I think it applies to a lot of people and more people should consider it. This is probably one of those times:
You can please some of the people some of the time and if you're good, you can please most of the people most of the time. But, if you try to please all of the people all of time, you'll end up pleasing none of the people none of the time.
In short, do what you feel is necessary, but don't worry too much about people yelling at you. As long as you don't get sued and your book sells, isn't everything fine and dandy?
I enjoy using this cliche, because I think it applies to a lot of people and more people should consider it. This is probably one of those times:
You can please some of the people some of the time and if you're good, you can please most of the people most of the time. But, if you try to please all of the people all of time, you'll end up pleasing none of the people none of the time.
In short, do what you feel is necessary, but don't worry too much about people yelling at you. As long as you don't get sued and your book sells, isn't everything fine and dandy?
Kurtz is being a jackass. He's copied plenty of other people's art styles on occasion and somehow I doubt he got their permission every time.
I dont think scott kurtz is a drama queen, he makes one argument and covers his ground, and for the next week you keep making rebuttles and excuses, ifs ands & buts on your blog, about how this isn't such a major screw up, and muddslinging at people who call shit. I think Scott said something completely legit, and it hardly seemed like a big deal to me, but instead people are on your blog talking like a bunch of highschool girls
good grief charlie brown
good grief charlie brown
It's well known that Kurtz is a man with strong ideas and the willingness to express them. And power to him for that, it's his right.
It's the morons who read his rant and act as if it was the Word Of God and go on crusades that make him look bad.
He offers some valid points, and T himself said so, but the less-than-valid points reduce the impact of the good ones...
It's the morons who read his rant and act as if it was the Word Of God and go on crusades that make him look bad.
He offers some valid points, and T himself said so, but the less-than-valid points reduce the impact of the good ones...
People, people, give Scott a break.
The man has a right to be bitter and angry. I mean he's like 3,000 lbs!
His food costs alone must be E-nor-mous!
The man has a right to be bitter and angry. I mean he's like 3,000 lbs!
His food costs alone must be E-nor-mous!
"Kurtz is being a jackass. He's copied plenty of other people's art styles on occasion and somehow I doubt he got their permission every time."
Copying a style of art while drawing your own characters is completely legal. He can draw PvP in whatever style he wants- which is why Tatsuya Ishida hasn't been sued by Bill Watterson just because Slick looks like Calvin. The problem was that T used someone else's characters; it was a mistake and I think T has been very good about owning up to and fixing that mistake.
Copying a style of art while drawing your own characters is completely legal. He can draw PvP in whatever style he wants- which is why Tatsuya Ishida hasn't been sued by Bill Watterson just because Slick looks like Calvin. The problem was that T used someone else's characters; it was a mistake and I think T has been very good about owning up to and fixing that mistake.
i love PVP. i really really do. that's how i came here.
but yeah. scott IS a drama queen, and despite never hearing of you before, i'm taking your side of the story. :) reading his blog irritates me & is something i usually avoid, because of how melodramatic he is.
but yeah. scott IS a drama queen, and despite never hearing of you before, i'm taking your side of the story. :) reading his blog irritates me & is something i usually avoid, because of how melodramatic he is.
Scott Kurtz has a tendency to open mouth and insert keyboard. Heck, sometimes he inserts keyboard, mouse, and eyes the monitor hungrily. ;)
His wife once said something very wise and intelligent, and he should remember those words and harken to them: wait 24 hours before posting something. That way he can cool down and post something intelligently rather than blathering on and making mistakes over and over again.
Come on, Scott... your wife is a brilliant lady. Listen to her! :)
Rob H.
His wife once said something very wise and intelligent, and he should remember those words and harken to them: wait 24 hours before posting something. That way he can cool down and post something intelligently rather than blathering on and making mistakes over and over again.
Come on, Scott... your wife is a brilliant lady. Listen to her! :)
Rob H.
Based on the previous comments, I think it's widely known that Mr. Kurtz is somewhat of a drama queen but what he said about T. Campbell isn't false--the fact that he isn't a widely known webcomic historian (Whatever that is, it sounds kind of silly). If there wasn't any mention about this book, I wouldn't have known about T. Campbell or bought this book at all and I've been reading webcomics since Keenspot started out. I would have probably regarded the book as one of those stupid ideas that want to get rich off the success of PVP, PA and MT.
If there wasn't any mention about this book, I wouldn't have known about T. Campbell or bought this book at all and I've been reading webcomics since Keenspot started out.
Did someone say Keenspot?
That's not the first one, either, of course; there have been others over the years, especially if you count crossovers the and like.
Did someone say Keenspot?
That's not the first one, either, of course; there have been others over the years, especially if you count crossovers the and like.
"Scott Kurtz has a tendency to open mouth and insert keyboard. Heck, sometimes he inserts keyboard, mouse, and eyes the monitor hungrily. ;)"
So that's how he got so monstrously fat!!
So that's how he got so monstrously fat!!
It's sad that the *few* real problems people have noticed get buried in "boo/hooray Kurtz" tangents and criticism of what is solely the fault of the publisher, or an honest mistake.
Given that, I think there is an easy choice here: drop the pretense of historicity. The Horsemen allusion is a good writerly device, and thoroughly inappropriate for an objective hsitory. Work linked from your homepage (some of which I have read long ago) demonstrates your talent as a writer. (If you find it relevant, I've been reading webcomics long enought to be one of the wave of people who discovered Megatokyo through that first link from Penny Arcade. I have at least some minimal idea of the development of the webcomics community, of which you are a part.) When I say you are not doing the work of a historian, I only refer to your own depiction of your own research methods in your blog and your posts on Rodney and Rose's forum. Everything else is hearsay anyway. So be a writer, and depict your book in a way that lets people know you are a writer, and let them enjoy a well written book. Why make thme angry over a shoddy "history" instead?
Post a Comment
Given that, I think there is an easy choice here: drop the pretense of historicity. The Horsemen allusion is a good writerly device, and thoroughly inappropriate for an objective hsitory. Work linked from your homepage (some of which I have read long ago) demonstrates your talent as a writer. (If you find it relevant, I've been reading webcomics long enought to be one of the wave of people who discovered Megatokyo through that first link from Penny Arcade. I have at least some minimal idea of the development of the webcomics community, of which you are a part.) When I say you are not doing the work of a historian, I only refer to your own depiction of your own research methods in your blog and your posts on Rodney and Rose's forum. Everything else is hearsay anyway. So be a writer, and depict your book in a way that lets people know you are a writer, and let them enjoy a well written book. Why make thme angry over a shoddy "history" instead?
<< Home
Archives
January 2005 February 2005 March 2005 April 2005 May 2005 June 2005 July 2005 August 2005 September 2005 October 2005 November 2005 December 2005 January 2006 February 2006 March 2006 April 2006 May 2006 June 2006 July 2006 August 2006 September 2006 October 2006 November 2006
