T Campbell's Blog
Writer of Penny and Aggie, Fans (also called Faans), Rip & Teri, Search Engine Funnies and A History of Webcomics. Experienced webcomics editor, currently seeking full-time work and working on strange and interesting new things...Tuesday, August 15, 2006
Part 4c: The Sleeping Giants Wake.
More bad news for those who wish to be "the DC and Marvel of webcomics:" DC and Marvel are beginning to think that they might like to be.
Last year, I made some remarks to the effect that Marvel's online "efforts" were more like online "halfhearted swipes."
What a difference a few months made. Marvel's gone after the Web hard, with Wikipediastic pages for its main characters, the restoration of the venerable no-prize, and smart, easy-to-find releases on their various multi-media releases.
And Marvel is not alone. Tokyopop's page now strongly emphasizes user-generated content and
clearly takes from the leading social-networking sites ("Pop it," digg?).
Marvel's current site design may be a bit too cluttered, the boundary between T-Pop's UGC and its copyrighted content a bit too indistinct, but both sites have clearly committed more resources and more capital into the Web in the last two years than previously.
Viz, DC and Image haven't come quite so far, but they have made real progress-- and the term "online comics" is appearing on company sites more and more often. Back in the day, "online comics" was a more-commonly-used synonym for webcomics... and particularly in the case of webmanga, it's getting harder and harder to tell which category to use.
Fittingly, the most conservative major publisher is the one whose website is the most awkward, with horrible typography, a mishmash of various clashing not-quite-Dan-DeCarlo art styles, "mystery links" and an inexplicable obsession with fictional geography. It hasn't quite figured out who it's for yet, but give it time. Marvel.com's unhealthy obsession with its stockholders was its biggest weakness in its early days. For all the in-jokes older fans make about it, the Archie brand still carries plenty of charm, and as soon as the website develops a similar spirit, it can start growing in the right direction.
The idea that comics' "old media" had to wake up to the Web sooner or later isn't all that groundbreaking: what's new is that it seems to be happening sooner. Both Marvel and DC have embraced podcasting (Joe Quesada on a personal basis). And in a recent interview, Paul Levitz had this to say about smaller, primarily online publishers, as well as bookstore-focused publishers:
"You're avoiding a lot of the bricks and mortar and overhead and legacy systems... one of the challenges of being the oldest company in a business, like DC is, is that you build things according to the logic of their time, and they survive past that logic..."
A sign of which way the wind is blowing? I suspect so.
I'm well aware that a lot of webcartoonists would view the notion of serious competition from DC Comics with either derisive laughter or contempt. I don't take either view. I think cross-fertilization is a big part of creative vitality; I think that Web-native cartooning and the house identities of DC and Marvel and Archie and Tokyopop have a lot to teach each other. It's going to be interesting to see which cartoonists decide to learn... and which close their ears and cling to the it's-been-done-before. It might not be the ones whom we expect.
More. Soon!
Last year, I made some remarks to the effect that Marvel's online "efforts" were more like online "halfhearted swipes."
What a difference a few months made. Marvel's gone after the Web hard, with Wikipediastic pages for its main characters, the restoration of the venerable no-prize, and smart, easy-to-find releases on their various multi-media releases.
And Marvel is not alone. Tokyopop's page now strongly emphasizes user-generated content and
clearly takes from the leading social-networking sites ("Pop it," digg?).
Marvel's current site design may be a bit too cluttered, the boundary between T-Pop's UGC and its copyrighted content a bit too indistinct, but both sites have clearly committed more resources and more capital into the Web in the last two years than previously.
Viz, DC and Image haven't come quite so far, but they have made real progress-- and the term "online comics" is appearing on company sites more and more often. Back in the day, "online comics" was a more-commonly-used synonym for webcomics... and particularly in the case of webmanga, it's getting harder and harder to tell which category to use.
Fittingly, the most conservative major publisher is the one whose website is the most awkward, with horrible typography, a mishmash of various clashing not-quite-Dan-DeCarlo art styles, "mystery links" and an inexplicable obsession with fictional geography. It hasn't quite figured out who it's for yet, but give it time. Marvel.com's unhealthy obsession with its stockholders was its biggest weakness in its early days. For all the in-jokes older fans make about it, the Archie brand still carries plenty of charm, and as soon as the website develops a similar spirit, it can start growing in the right direction.
The idea that comics' "old media" had to wake up to the Web sooner or later isn't all that groundbreaking: what's new is that it seems to be happening sooner. Both Marvel and DC have embraced podcasting (Joe Quesada on a personal basis). And in a recent interview, Paul Levitz had this to say about smaller, primarily online publishers, as well as bookstore-focused publishers:
"You're avoiding a lot of the bricks and mortar and overhead and legacy systems... one of the challenges of being the oldest company in a business, like DC is, is that you build things according to the logic of their time, and they survive past that logic..."
A sign of which way the wind is blowing? I suspect so.
I'm well aware that a lot of webcartoonists would view the notion of serious competition from DC Comics with either derisive laughter or contempt. I don't take either view. I think cross-fertilization is a big part of creative vitality; I think that Web-native cartooning and the house identities of DC and Marvel and Archie and Tokyopop have a lot to teach each other. It's going to be interesting to see which cartoonists decide to learn... and which close their ears and cling to the it's-been-done-before. It might not be the ones whom we expect.
More. Soon!
Comments:
<< Home
If they ever get it right, they will command a huge audiance and a huge ad revenue. If they can translate that into money for web-exclusive artists, then I say, "fuck yeah."
I'm with Fab, I think this could be good for everyone. Marvel and DC command a different audience that largely is not reading webcomics now. Maybe Spidey gets some of my readers too, maybe I get some of Spidey's reading me as well.
The real key is it's a different playing field than the current direct market one, shelf space and pricing aren't issues for the indies to be crushed by. Sure, the Bigs will command significant PR and attention, but there's much more room for alt material on the wen then there is in the current market.
Also: Levitz's quote fills me with glee. For better or for worse, the future is coming.
The real key is it's a different playing field than the current direct market one, shelf space and pricing aren't issues for the indies to be crushed by. Sure, the Bigs will command significant PR and attention, but there's much more room for alt material on the wen then there is in the current market.
Also: Levitz's quote fills me with glee. For better or for worse, the future is coming.
Superhero fans tend to be genre fans. Hell, so are most comic readers. And while there are overlaps, I dont think Marvel and DC putting Spidey and Supes up is going to mean crap for anyone else because they're there for Spidey, and would give two shits about the continuing misadventures of T-Rex
ESPECIALLY since even "mid-level" webcomics get more UIPs a month than read your average print comic gets read. (Assuming UPIs are anything to honestly go by)
And really, the print companies are already talent scouting from the web. The only people going to benefit from the giants "invading" the land of webcomics are the giants and those they choose to serve them.
ESPECIALLY since even "mid-level" webcomics get more UIPs a month than read your average print comic gets read. (Assuming UPIs are anything to honestly go by)
And really, the print companies are already talent scouting from the web. The only people going to benefit from the giants "invading" the land of webcomics are the giants and those they choose to serve them.
tru dat, but a few of them Do hop genres and those are readers we may not have had before, if the rest ignore us, well, nothing changes, right?
Thing is, William, we KNOW that there's a huge Spider-Man audience that isn't reading FRIENDLY NEIGHBORHOOD SPIDER-MAN, because more people saw SPIDER-MAN 2 than bought ALL the Spider-Man comic books published that year. I'm familiar with "advanced continuity" fans who want nothing but more of the same, but even the fans running DC and Marvel recognize now that they can't rely on this audience forever.
The print companies aren't talent-scouting from the Web as much as one might think... it happens and it's a sign of change, but most people only get in after concentrated effort and a bit of luck.
The print companies aren't talent-scouting from the Web as much as one might think... it happens and it's a sign of change, but most people only get in after concentrated effort and a bit of luck.
The only people going to benefit from the giants "invading" the land of webcomics are the giants and those they choose to serve them.
In the short term this is true, but "those they choose to serve them" includes many people I'm glad to see prosper. In the longer term, competition forces people to raise their game.
In the short term this is true, but "those they choose to serve them" includes many people I'm glad to see prosper. In the longer term, competition forces people to raise their game.
There's a Monster.com listing for "Online Editor" at DC Comics.
No, really, there is. Posted July 25.
On your mark, get set ...
No, really, there is. Posted July 25.
On your mark, get set ...
The people who saw Spiderman 2 aren't interested in comics, they're interested in movies. And while they're probably familiar with the Spidey mythos from their childhood, interest in a movie is not interest in a character.
Bassically, the popularity of superhero movies is not a reflection of the popularity of superheroes, it's a reflection of the popularity of action films.
The only people who'll read their online works will be people who'd be reading anyway. The only benefit Marvel will have over others is the ability to make sure their sites thrive under the new internet that'll come up once net neutrality is killed once and for all.
Bassically, the popularity of superhero movies is not a reflection of the popularity of superheroes, it's a reflection of the popularity of action films.
The only people who'll read their online works will be people who'd be reading anyway. The only benefit Marvel will have over others is the ability to make sure their sites thrive under the new internet that'll come up once net neutrality is killed once and for all.
Anyway, point: I dont think you''ll see much audience spill over. Comics geeks are insular and cultish by nature and we'll continue to see the little webcomic kingdoms we see now, just with a logo on it.
It's going to happen sooner than you guys think-- the actual amalgamation of BIG forces in comics AND webcomics. Keep your eyes peeled.
Also-- I sort of came from the comic book land and migrated to the web-- I can tell you, comic store readers are already ONLINE-- and don't discount them into only reading HERO books-- go to a shop and take a look at the pull list boxes, you'll see WIDE variety of things in there.
The real problem is holding their attention. POLISHED, professional looking work is all they'll really want, they know "amatuer hour" in a split second, just like if you hand someone who only reads IMage, Marvel and DC an indy small press book, sometimes they kinda roll their eyes at the quality, or the price tag.
Also-- just adding this as a final thought. I don't think it will be Marvel and DC who make a BIG impact on "webcomics", because big companies with shareholders like to keep things CONTROLLED and contained in their little boxes. It would take something like IMAGE, back in 1992 to really kickstart an comic book revolution online.
I reckon that is coming.
Also-- I sort of came from the comic book land and migrated to the web-- I can tell you, comic store readers are already ONLINE-- and don't discount them into only reading HERO books-- go to a shop and take a look at the pull list boxes, you'll see WIDE variety of things in there.
The real problem is holding their attention. POLISHED, professional looking work is all they'll really want, they know "amatuer hour" in a split second, just like if you hand someone who only reads IMage, Marvel and DC an indy small press book, sometimes they kinda roll their eyes at the quality, or the price tag.
Also-- just adding this as a final thought. I don't think it will be Marvel and DC who make a BIG impact on "webcomics", because big companies with shareholders like to keep things CONTROLLED and contained in their little boxes. It would take something like IMAGE, back in 1992 to really kickstart an comic book revolution online.
I reckon that is coming.
The people who saw Spiderman 2 aren't interested in comics, they're interested in movies. And while they're probably familiar with the Spidey mythos from their childhood, interest in a movie is not interest in a character.
I strongly doubt that there's no correlation between the two, especially since the SPIDER-MAN movies, unlike the HARRY POTTER films, are not adapting a specific story but presenting new adventures of that character.
Not to say that a Spider-Man webcomic is a guaranteed success, but it sure presents interesting opportunities.
The only people who'll read their online works will be people who'd be reading anyway.
I disagree that this is inevitable. Though superhero comics do face some difficulties online, they're not that different from the difficulties any other action comics face. A familiar face always helps one get one's foot in the door.
It is likely that Marvel will try to push "fanboy-centered" material on the larger Web audience, and cost itself some opportunities to reach everyone else, as they've already done. But they've begun to show a learning curve. The Web is not the direct market, and nothing that happens in Congress will make it so.
The only benefit Marvel will have over others is the ability to make sure their sites thrive under the new internet that'll come up once net neutrality is killed once and for all.
Net non-neutrality is a factor to be sure, but that's a whole 'nother post.
I strongly doubt that there's no correlation between the two, especially since the SPIDER-MAN movies, unlike the HARRY POTTER films, are not adapting a specific story but presenting new adventures of that character.
Not to say that a Spider-Man webcomic is a guaranteed success, but it sure presents interesting opportunities.
The only people who'll read their online works will be people who'd be reading anyway.
I disagree that this is inevitable. Though superhero comics do face some difficulties online, they're not that different from the difficulties any other action comics face. A familiar face always helps one get one's foot in the door.
It is likely that Marvel will try to push "fanboy-centered" material on the larger Web audience, and cost itself some opportunities to reach everyone else, as they've already done. But they've begun to show a learning curve. The Web is not the direct market, and nothing that happens in Congress will make it so.
The only benefit Marvel will have over others is the ability to make sure their sites thrive under the new internet that'll come up once net neutrality is killed once and for all.
Net non-neutrality is a factor to be sure, but that's a whole 'nother post.
One important factor worth considering is the matter of price--I stongly believe that there is a much larger potential audience for mainstream comics than is willing to pay $3 for 22 pages. Taking Spider-Man to the web obviates that particular obstacle (so long as Marvel doesn't do something stupid like continuing to charge full price for online material). Plus you have the opportunity to interest the more casual reader--I know I'd be reading more Marvel books than I am if they weren't so expensive. And there were a number of years where I stopped reading entirely, which I probably wouldn't have if I could have gotten the material online.
Not to mention, you eliminate the need to go to specialty shops to get the material--that obstacle alone precludes any possibility of a casual readership.
And honestly, I think DJ is right that a new mainstream upstart could tap into possibilities the big two aren't nearly ready for, especially if it launches with star power like Image did.
Not to mention, you eliminate the need to go to specialty shops to get the material--that obstacle alone precludes any possibility of a casual readership.
And honestly, I think DJ is right that a new mainstream upstart could tap into possibilities the big two aren't nearly ready for, especially if it launches with star power like Image did.
There IS a Spider-Man webcomic. It's updated every single day and written by Stan Lee himself!
CHECK IT OUT.
CHECK IT OUT.
Hey T. Just thought I'd give you a heads up; I wrote a counterpoint to your blog about Marvel and DC. Needless to say, I am not nearly as optimistic as you. ;)
You can find it here: http://tangent.panel2panel.com/tan-ch-0362.html
Take care, T.
Rob H.
Post a Comment
You can find it here: http://tangent.panel2panel.com/tan-ch-0362.html
Take care, T.
Rob H.
<< Home
Archives
January 2005 February 2005 March 2005 April 2005 May 2005 June 2005 July 2005 August 2005 September 2005 October 2005 November 2005 December 2005 January 2006 February 2006 March 2006 April 2006 May 2006 June 2006 July 2006 August 2006 September 2006 October 2006 November 2006
